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We get this question a lot. Here is how we see it:
There are a host of examples of ambitious MMORPG designs that aimed a delivery in 2 to 3 years, and were still in development after 5 years or longer. I'm sure we all know examples. How do we prevent this from happening to Rulers of the Sea?
This is a difficult subject, because we are so early phase that a lot of more detailed designing and planning still has to be realized. So can we truly know how long development will take?
The answer is: if planning is important to you, if you are really committed to delivering in a certain time frame, then a game development is like any other big project.
The first question is what game elements are really important for our fans. What is the minimum our fans want to see actionable to enjoy the core element of the game? What is minimum play-ability in a way our fans would already love and sets it apart? That is less than the total design. We need to sharply define that and concentrate on getting that done first and properly. The rest is additional content. You want to deliver that too, but if you get in trouble in planning, those are the ones that you can also deliver after launch. It's an MMORPG after all, we will keep adding content during the whole lifetime of the game.
The second question is what we can simplify. What really matters to our fans, what needs to be perfect? And what is okay in a simplified way? Do we need to dedicate 5 artists and developers for half a year to make the waves look perfect? Or do we need to keep the waves simpler, and spend that capacity on making the land warfare module better? Do we need to simulate every ship cannon ball trajectory and hit effect? Or can we resolve ship battles with less accurate optics, where cannon balls that hit are more for effect than actual direct actors (and the calculation of battle statistics is leading)? Do we need wine glasses in which the wine moves with gravity and reflects the candle-light? Or is a simpler static wineglass good enough?
The third question is how much art needs to be finished upon launch? What if we haven't finished all the costumes for all the cultures yet, and some walk around in costumes that they share with other regional countries? What if not all buildings in ports have been culturally textured yet, so some still look 'western colonial' instead of 'southern colonial'? Etc. Is that a big deal? The game is fully playable and more art can be released as it is finished. Even the community can be involved in creating it. That is something that will never stop anyway.
The fourth question is: can you achieve the mechanics and effects you want in a simplified way? Are you capable and flexible enough of looking at your design details for things that can be done in other ways, achieving the same effect? And if that a mission, are you always on the hunt for finding more efficiency in the design?
And the fifth is: freeze your design, don't add to it anymore until after launch. The first commitment is to deliver what you set out to build, the second is to launch, the third is to expand further.
So if keeping a planning is important, there are lots of things that can be done to get there if things don't go as planned. There are complex projects in the world where delay is not acceptable, and those are generally met because the pressure to find solutions and make hard choices is present. In our case there are plenty of options. We'd love for everything to be completely finished, but worse case scenario we can also deliver elements after launch.
If that is an option, do you then move your launch window (time and again) to release a completely finished design, or do you meet your launch window and provide a stream of (free!) upgrades to introduce the rest? We prefer to meet a launch window because then you go from nothing to game. Just as long as you can ensure there is enough playability to already satisfy your fans.
The biggest mistake that is often made is communication. Gamers are intensely disappointed when they don't find all the content they hoped for and have to wait. Some games have really come back from that, others have failed because of that. I think that if you keep your community really well informed of progress and involve them in these questions, they will be very understanding and don't mind waiting a number of months for more content. And if you have a hard choice to make, why not put it to your community?
That is how we look at it. We're curious what your opinion is on these things. What would you do when things don't go to plan? What do you think is important? What is the minimum state in which Rulers of the Sea can be released, what should absolutely be included?
If you hadn't guessed yet, I'm the game designer. Ask me anything, that's what I'm here for!
Posted : October 4, 2019 6:00 pm
I suggest a priority of playability over look.
Yes, it’s supposed to be immersive, but if you have the same buildings in different ports I’d think that’s fine. Just make a point of informing the base that these things will be rectified in due time, the important thing was getting the product to us. I’m sure those of us who’ve been waiting for years to play won’t care about those details.
Individual flying objects would be awesome to implement, as taxing as that might be on the system and computers. If nothing else, cannonballs should be implemented this way, since their trajectory through the vessels will determine what/who is going to have a bad day.
Smaller details like water, gravity effects, and things that just add to the ambiance could be left on the back burner for now. Add them in when you can... on second thought, a couple should be implemented to show the base where you want to / will go with the rest of the game later.
Obviously do your best to meet the release window. I wouldn’t mind it spending more time in Alpha or Beta, more minds working on the problems the quicker they’re resolved.
Your communication, especially with financial things, is stellar and is the primary reason I invested in you guys. Keep doing what you’re doing, it’s refreshing after seeing what AAA companies have been doing lately. I’m sure other players will agree.
I have full faith in you guys to produce a stellar game. Stick to your core values and trust the decisions you make are the right ones!
If you ever wonder why men would line up and fire at each other with muskets, wearing layers of wool in the summer sun and carrying their property on their back, and tolerate that arrangement, don't worry. I'm sure they wondered too.
Posted : October 4, 2019 8:26 pm
Im with ScarT,
The Look of a Game is Important for many guys out there, but what brings a Beautyfull world and Enviorment when all other things, lagging behind. From my point of view it is Important that mechanics work as intended, like the interaction betwen Npc's, the Eco-Stuff and the Battle mechanics. All this will be a long way to achiev i think.
If the Game will have some nice thinks that will the World feel alive especial in Ports. Seagulls, People that will loading Ships. Woud be awsome. But are they needed in the First Point i dont think so.
The next point woud be what can the Engine handel. Befor it goes down or Lagging. Will the Game go in the direction like SC, where many have backed, and even today many guys Lagging with the PC-Specs cause some things are overdone or even there own engine cant handle those Graphics well.
I got no idea about Engins and Graphics, so i dont really know how the things work, but when the Game will be released in 3-4Years and PC's from 2022/23 are struckling with the Game woud be not so good.
Im looking really forward on this Projekt. It sounds really promising.
Posted : October 11, 2019 10:43 am
If the mechanics are set from the get go, you won't have to go back and forth to address things than might not be working as intended. That is going to take even more development time.
In my opinion Mechanics/playability first, eye candy second.
We get this question a lot. Here is how we see it:
There are a host of examples of ambitious MMORPG designs that aimed a delivery in 2 to 3 years, and were still in development after 5 years or longer. I'm sure we all know examples. How do we prevent this from happening to Rulers of the Sea?
This is a difficult subject, because we are so early phase that a lot of more detailed designing and planning still has to be realized. So can we truly know how long development will take?
The answer is: if planning is important to you, if you are really committed to delivering in a certain time frame, then a game development is like any other big project.
The first question is what game elements are really important for our fans. What is the minimum our fans want to see actionable to enjoy the core element of the game? What is minimum play-ability in a way our fans would already love and sets it apart? That is less than the total design. We need to sharply define that and concentrate on getting that done first and properly. The rest is additional content. You want to deliver that too, but if you get in trouble in planning, those are the ones that you can also deliver after launch. It's an MMORPG after all, we will keep adding content during the whole lifetime of the game.
The second question is what we can simplify. What really matters to our fans, what needs to be perfect? And what is okay in a simplified way? Do we need to dedicate 5 artists and developers for half a year to make the waves look perfect? Or do we need to keep the waves simpler, and spend that capacity on making the land warfare module better? Do we need to simulate every ship cannon ball trajectory and hit effect? Or can we resolve ship battles with less accurate optics, where cannon balls that hit are more for effect than actual direct actors (and the calculation of battle statistics is leading)? Do we need wine glasses in which the wine moves with gravity and reflects the candle-light? Or is a simpler static wineglass good enough?
The third question is how much art needs to be finished upon launch? What if we haven't finished all the costumes for all the cultures yet, and some walk around in costumes that they share with other regional countries? What if not all buildings in ports have been culturally textured yet, so some still look 'western colonial' instead of 'southern colonial'? Etc. Is that a big deal? The game is fully playable and more art can be released as it is finished. Even the community can be involved in creating it. That is something that will never stop anyway.
.....
That is how we look at it. We're curious what your opinion is on these things. What would you do when things don't go to plan? What do you think is important? What is the minimum state in which Rulers of the Sea can be released, what should absolutely be included?
@petersj Have you considered "employing" your community to help accomplish these first 3 points? There are a few of us who have modeling skills via F360, Blender, and other programs. Perhaps, in the design department you could implement careers that the community can participate in while development happens. Some of us might be incapable of financially helping the project, but could help in designs. Perhaps these future players could be rewarded with in-game finances or something. Here are my two suggestions, both of which I would suggest having a Submission Thread here on the game forum that community members could vote on to get implemented:
Career Architect: We design a model of a building and post it in a Architect/Submission/Culture thread. (Culture would be sub-threaded for each in game.)The community gets to review it answering a few questions like:
- Do you like the design?
- Is this design suitable for this culture?
- Is this design offensive? (To prevent designs with offensive symbolisms, and phallic/yonic in nature, etc.)
- etc, etc.
- Should this design be implemented in game?
Career Shipwright: We design different parts of the ship that could be customizable in game: Sails, Bowfigure, Deck, Hull, Captain's Quarters, etc, and post it to another Submission thread. Again, the community would review it answering a few questions relevant to the design.
- Do you like the design?
- Is this design suitable in its submitted class?
- Is the design historically accurate?
- etc, etc.
- Should this design be implemented in the game?
Possible rewards could be in-game currency. Say a building like a Commoners House would be worth 10 gold, a Church worth 30 gold, a Townhouse worth 40 gold, a Rowhouse worth 60 gold, a Bowfigure worth 20 gold, a Captain's Quarter worth 40 gold, etc. etc. They could also be rewarded special ranks in game. Say an Architect who submitted 1 design that was approved could receive the title Carpenter, someone submitting 10 could be Architect to the King. Say a Shipwright could be rewarded Carpenter for 1 item submitted and approved, and someone submitting 5 items could be Shipwright to the King. (Just examples.)
What this would accomplish is speeding up the design/development phase while taking some of the load off your crew. Also, this could provide income in the game if other gamers want to purchase their design in game and actually see them pop up around town or when designing a ship. You could have a host of Submission topics like: Seamstress for players and npc apparel; Jeweler for both; Gardener; Blacksmith, etc. Basically for all careers you plan to have in game.
This post was modified 4 years ago by Reh3dZone
Posted : October 11, 2019 7:33 pm
Topic starter
You seem to have prophetic skills! That is exactly what we intend to do. But it's not something we have explained here yet.
We intend to build all the tooling of for the game creation first, as a priority, and build it in such a way that it is possible to configure and regulate for external users. We have a lead dev that's really good at tooling. Then we will make this available to the community so that they can create assets, and even do an amount of level building. So community developed assets.
This is possible in our design because we will create an array of re-usable assets with set footprints and dimensions. So for a building we'd know exactly the dimensions and properties needed that make it place-able in the game maps. So with a conscious design format it is very possible to have community members work in our specs. That fits really well with our designs.
So community members can create both architecture and objects, and then, with a little moderation from our side, they can be placed in the game.
The reason why this is attractive, apart from the capacity that this might create, is that we have all these historical ports and cities, but yet we are mostly going to fill those with generally generic designed models, out of necessity, because of the sheer number of everything. But that will mean that an Inn or a Church in a western European port looks all the same. If you love history, and you love, for instance, the port of Boston, you would want to make it resemble historical Boston. That is too much for us to do, but a committed community member with the skill-set, the hobby, and the love of 18th century Boston, could very well do it. That would add wonderful diversity to the game, community driven.
We will also think about some reward system for this work. Maybe you get some nice permanent monument in-game. We'll name a street after you. Or maybe we will even give some limited monetary award if we can, because it does ad value. I do think there needs to be some kind of tangible appreciation. And we could also put some competition up perhaps, or a community evaluation of community created props. Could be nice.
So yes, there is going to be heavy community participation stimulated in this development.
Me, as a former modder, really believe in this. Modding communities are the most loyal and committed fans you'll ever see for any game, we'd love to create that around Rulers of the Sea. Also, we already allow gamers to create unique items in-game, so that level of customization really fits our philosophy.
Also, we are going to be selling gamer shares. So a part of this game is literally going to be owned by gamers themselves. That expresses how much we want this project to have a high degree of community ownership.
This post was modified 4 years ago by PeterSJ
If you hadn't guessed yet, I'm the game designer. Ask me anything, that's what I'm here for!
Posted : October 11, 2019 9:30 pm
You made my "Oh" face show! I am really excited; not so much for any reward, but to see something I created to be in the game. (oh, and maybe a little bit a monument or street in my name. heheh)
Also, we already allow gamers to create unique items in-game
You already have? or are planning to have? If you have something already, I'd like to participate somehow.
Posted : October 11, 2019 9:50 pm
Francis Walsingham and Sigridur reacted
Topic starter
Haha, I was referring to the design feature of writing books, making paintings, adding music. This is all possible in the design. They seem frivolous, but I think they are extremely important. They make you add something very personal. That second life feeling. That has never failed to capture my imagination. Such a simple thing really, and yet....
If you hadn't guessed yet, I'm the game designer. Ask me anything, that's what I'm here for!
Posted : October 11, 2019 9:57 pm
I find it tremendously exciting to think that the community will be able to help develop art/architecture assets for the game. That will necessarily mean a more diverse look in every port.
Way back when there was a thriving ship-modeling community prior to Pirates of the Burning Sea being released and many of those ships were absolutely wonderful. I have no doubt that turning your community loose to help design things will be something that benefits both the dev team and the community.
Grand Duke of Charles Towne
North American Union Discord: https://discord.gg/sbaQxWG
Southern Colonies Discord: https://discord.gg/XzxPn2M
Posted : November 3, 2019 6:11 pm
Topic starter
I absolutely agree with you! I have been part of modding communities for many years and there are tons of (often untapped) potential and passion there. All you need to do as a developer is to take the community into account with your tooling and create a good structure for moderation and community sharing, but if you get that right, the gains will be enormous. More uniqueness, more customization, but especially, the most loyal and invested fans you'll ever see.
If you hadn't guessed yet, I'm the game designer. Ask me anything, that's what I'm here for!
Posted : November 3, 2019 7:18 pm
Are you able and willing to share an in depth history and progression of how RotS came to be? Like, when did you have a concept to share with others. How much of the concept did you have and how long did it take? Who did you share it with? How did you convince others to join in? Etc, etc. Game development is fascinating to me. I'm sure we'd all like to know how RotS was born and matured. 🙂
Posted : November 6, 2019 4:07 pm
Topic starter
Sound like I have to write my memoirs! 😊
Sure, I can share all that. It all started in 1971, oh wait, no....it all started in 2016......no, still too long. I should make a video about it maybe, it sounds like a story for an interview. I am planning on making a video soon about games that were an inspiration for the design. Just because that might also be a better way to explain look and feel, and some of the mechanics.
But I think it's a bit too soon for a ' making of ' video. We're still so early phase. I promise that once we have enough investment in it to start full scale development, I will definitely make one! Right now I'm really keen on getting it off the ground, there are already so many years of hours (and money) invested in this dream. It's going in the right direction, we're definitely convinced this is very viable, there is a lot of interest and a good start. But we still have mountains to move. This has been a continual process of two steps forward, one step back, for a year now. There are always surprises, always setbacks, always windfalls, sometimes I get a bit down but then something great happens that gets me fired up again.
This place, our growing forum, with people like you, is what really is the greatest motivator for me. An idea by itself can be very powerful, but a shared idea can be unstoppable.
So if there is going to be a video about the ' making of ', there is definitely going to be mention of the fans, the believers. You guys and girls ultimately made this possible, more than anybody else. Without that energy and support we have nothing.
If you hadn't guessed yet, I'm the game designer. Ask me anything, that's what I'm here for!
Posted : November 6, 2019 7:00 pm
In my opinion You'll need to have a basic game prototype in place with at least minimal functionality as fast as possible. To have something to show to potential investors, the gaming media and the future players.
Life is too short to play bad games. 🙂
Posted : December 3, 2019 12:53 am
Francis Walsingham and Sigridur reacted
Topic starter
You already made that point in another thread, where I responded. Just in case other are interested in the discussion:
If you hadn't guessed yet, I'm the game designer. Ask me anything, that's what I'm here for!
Posted : December 3, 2019 2:22 am
Francis Walsingham and Sigridur reacted
This subject is a concern for me, as a player.
As Peter would remember of ETW, we had a few major and playable nations and the rest were the minor and unplayable ones. I can't remember exactly how many were they but I remember one problem.
The problem was the clone armies, navies and buildings. The lack of deph and identity among those nations. Modders soon began producing tons of land units (I personally was supporting Ornamentum Mod) to mitigate this.
To sum up, for many reasons, Empire Total War didn't met the expectations.
I believe that also Creative Assembly took note of this (bad) experience with ETW. The following titles haven't matched the scope and ambition of Empire Total War. Even when Creative Assembly is now the biggest development studio in UK and their titles met good sales.
Total War is just an example, but the Assasin Creed saga could be another. Even the latest titles, which have a big map, chose one small part of the world (Egipt and Greece). Making so they guaranteed a way more inmersive and detailed experience.
Kingdom Come Deliverance takes place in Bohemia, not even a country. Still, it was a success.
It is my fear that 152 playable nations over all the world could be too much. Too much for a experience that aims to be realistic, inmersive and based, initially, on History.
As an architect, I have enjoyed the recreations made by Ubisoft of the cities of Florence, Venice, Rome, Paris, Istambul, La Havana, London, Kingston Port Royal, Atens, El Cairo. Also Chicago and San Francisco (Watch Dogs). Every city is different and unique, you can't even assume one city should look as another just because they are on the same country. Doing the opposite, creating clone cities/assests to simplify the development, will hurt the sense of discovery in the game.
In my years as student, I learnt something "Less is More". That statement is not related to minimalism in architecture, it means that one or two well developped ideas can make a great project.
Posted : January 30, 2020 8:22 pm
Francis Walsingham reacted
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